Public Sector Watch: The big data and education privacy debate
Welcome to Public Sector Watch where we debate data and analytics issues affecting government, education and healthcare. Today we tackle the issue of big data, education and privacy.
Big data and privacy is an ongoing conversation no matter the industry. Today, educators, analyst, parents and concerned citizens are locked in debate as educational institutions are increasingly analyzing student data including student ID card swipes, online discussion forums and grades. Today we discuss big data in education and the privacy balance.
:01 and go everyone welcome the public sector watch 0:10 where we debate in an analytic issues affecting government education and 0:14 healthcare 0:14 today we tackle the issue Big Data education privacy 0:18 i'm robert dole and your global industry leader for IBM analytics for public 0:22 sector 0:22 and your host for today's public sector watch let me start by introducing our 0:26 brilliant 0:27 and today we're joined by Jeff Palmer sinister 0:30 was a principal analyst for enterprise software with that you can choose 0:33 research and advisory firm focused on analyzing the transformation higher 0:36 education welcome Jap 0:38 we're also doing by Breitbart what 0:42 CIO and vice president of information technology in learning resource 0:45 services at saint cloud Technical Community College saint cloud minnesota 0:49 welcome by think and rounding out our panel with Susan beard 0:54 who is the director information technology at Holy Trinity is 0:57 look at me in Melbourne Florida & Co moderator a very popular 1:01 at Tech Chat great to have you with us as well see 2br 1:04 big data and privacy in an ongoing conversation no matter the industry 1:08 and education is no exception today educators 1:12 analyst parents concerned citizens and students are locked in debate 1:16 educational institutions are increasingly analyzing more and more 1:19 students 1:20 day including student ID swipes online discussion forums 1:24 grades and test scores today we'll discuss be dated education 1:28 and the privacy ballots let's get started with your gf 1:31 pundits say that we need to limit the students data that's collected stored 1:35 shared used to support 1:37 student learning and success so who determines what that limit is especially 1:41 if more data it's a clear picture the student's needs 1:44 I'm thanks though it's interesting 1:48 um a lot of the data that we're talking about here that institutions might 1:51 actually 1:52 be using linking together already exists and is already being stored on the 1:56 institutions i mean we talk about the date and higher education 1:59 %uh we're really talking about getting the data silos to talk 2:02 amongst themselves are bringing you a simple data warehouse or simple analytic 2:06 system 2:06 a lot of a transactional data that were that are already in the 2:10 ella mas or or the instructional systems 2:13 state mission systems no systems record have been kinda 2:16 kept alone in silos with their own managers and IT staff or 2:21 or business process owners are reduced our someone sitting on top them and 2:24 being gatekeepers for that 2:25 data um in so we talk about who needs the limit 2:29 you know who determines what what day were living here for sharing 2:32 um in higher ed it's a it's it's a it's a problem iraq focus 2:35 so that I read um got it where you have different stakeholders then in 2:40 individual institution represent each those individual systems and sometimes 2:44 have a different voice in stakeholder thats trying to 2:47 you know jockey for why you should or shouldn't use data what security 2:50 policies with USANA system a system basis 2:53 it's not usually ever consistent across the the iran enterprise 2:57 on but rarely we talking about bringing data they don't already collect some 3:01 are too far recommendations to clients that we just get it 3:05 did the day did you already are clicking on students and your existing systems 3:08 you are you looking for a valid on you know 3:12 %uh you academic purposes if you could just get although systems to share data 3:16 amongst themselves or with a centralized other sorry for analytics 3:19 I'm newbie but much better off on what we're really finding though 3:23 on where there's a lot of policy dis the you know 3:26 direction coming both and it opened fire at is on the start 3:29 well and data from sources that are not typical academic 3:33 systems like social media streams and other sources that are not sure 3:37 typically associated with educational purposes and somehow 3:40 on an educational systems or free animated people system that we have a 3:44 problem identifying 3:45 really owns the policy decisions love 3:48 all that data and and make a determination about what we should or 3:51 shouldn't be bringing 3:52 great thank you so 3:55 I'm by Susan I'm any any input on that as well what do you what do you think 4:00 what are your thoughts on that 4:02 it's a really hot topic now and and 4:05 it's been interesting to follow because so many different groups are weighing in 4:09 on a 90 4:10 its the number people there taking a stab at writing policies 4:14 Richie procedures surrounding missus is pretty is down because we got nonprofit 4:19 group we've got 4:20 people in congress doing it we got it going on at the state level 4:25 in then we have 4:26 student groups so um everybody's trying to weigh in right policy around this and 4:31 that's just an indication of how 4:33 tricky isn't what kind of a balancing act were walking against to 4:37 arm insure that we do arm 4:41 keep the trust to the students in 4:44 to keep their day to see so I I'm just feeling like it's 4:48 its really kinda the tricky thing for us right now in something we're still 4:52 trying to sort out but 4:54 I agree that arm the unusual sources 4:58 day we're bringing that we didn't have access to me for like for instance 5:01 Twitter 5:02 those those aren't the I'll sources updated their 5:07 are going to be trickier forest incorporate into our 5:10 dataset and are it's something that we're going to have to work on 5:15 absolutely this is also a really 5:18 hot topic in the cage wall space as well and of course complicated 5:22 by the fact that almost 50 each student's father in the under the age of 5:26 18 5:27 say you've got a lot of legislation on me 5:30 work don t Congress right now I'm you have for 5:33 you have copper to consider %uh there's a lot of 5:37 different factors and there's a lot I wish different voices 5:41 that have a stage com in at in the controversy 5:45 so I I personally think the most important thing about this is that we 5:49 need to be putting the needs of our students first 5:52 and for instance I feel very strongly that data collected should not be used 5:56 by 5:57 up private enterprise for other purposes other than educational 6:01 up process I'm more than a that they shouldn't be allowed to be sold to 6:06 other organization cell is definitely a very hot topic in education 6:11 K 12 education right now ominous just determining 6:14 who is the gatekeeper who who is being held responsible for 6:18 he in the data secure om and I what are the potential liabilities 6:22 I think the voice it's really been lacking in this whole thing is the 6:26 students boys 6:27 maybe heard from so many other groups in the student 6:31 always I just don't hear a lot from students i mean there are people out 6:35 there looking out for me but 6:36 I don't see a lot of steam action on 6:38 this I I'm not seeing college I don't know you have susan 6:43 but I think that we need to take gives them to weigh in more on yes 6:47 to me the biggest things transparency 6:51 if you're going to use it you have to be 6:54 very transparent about what you're using in how you using 6:57 absolutely and I think indicate well space 7:01 out one it's the biggest challenges is educating educating students about 7:05 on issues running privacy and also educating their parents 7:09 actually been my experience that I'm most people don't know what they don't 7:13 know 7:13 when it comes to privacy people don't realize that social media sites are you 7:16 know 7:17 giant personal data sucking machines to stick I 7:21 permission makin about you I'm and so I think that educating 7:25 I'm students and I it wholeheartedly review I think student voice is critical 7:29 because I think students 7:31 need to understand %uh what their data is being used for and what potential 7:35 implications are 7:36 in educating the populace because um 7:40 you know when most people hear student your educational d to 7:43 they think testing data yes it's so far beyond that now when you when you're 7:48 talking about 7:49 educational dear people think oh you're going to released his scores or 7:52 something but 7:53 it just so far beyond that in that most people don't realize 7:57 school a great welded it's interesting 8:01 because you know but many companies IBM included have been asked to 8:05 on to sign a are you know I'm a privacy 8:08 agreement especially for k12 right I mean it to do exactly what you talk 8:12 about 8:13 not to use this information for purposes other than and 8:16 than academics and I can question however everyone on the small 8:20 is it you know the the debate is really starting to be more round K-twelve 8:24 versus higher education the implication being that over the eighteen 18 year an 8:28 adult 8:28 therefore your I mean at least by the definition the government that you can 8:32 start to make your own kind decisions about that 8:34 and I think you're right that we don't hear a lot from this dude parents tend 8:38 to represent students under the age of 18 I think we all agree 8:41 and then and and and we see students representing themselves 8:44 over the age of 18 are you see this debate between the the k12 in higher 8:48 education starting a separate 8:50 and different policy starting to emerge between those two different groups 8:54 and anyone one way in there I feel like 8:58 are it's pretty people pretty universally feel that 9:01 you have to have more stringent data policies when it comes to 9:04 key 12 than you do in in higher ed in 9:07 I think people really want to protect are more prone to want to protect 9:11 each group but the date is all starting to melt together into one big lump 9:16 because %uh this lbs the statewide longitudinal 9:20 the the use systems that I think virtually all the states have that now 9:25 so 9:25 the date it real goes all the way from key 9:29 all the way to college so 9:32 I'll I think I do think though that there should be stricter laws 9:36 surrounding 9:37 in my personal opinion around protecting 9:41 K 12 students there's actually a 9:45 a bit over the economy right now but I think it'll change in the next 9:49 your to you um there's a lot love 9:52 coverage it what I think other us buying think the children in terms of 9:55 a bust in their privacy and security where a lot of the legislation 10:00 the the reinterpretation or or or guidance so 10:04 for they happen in December 2011 as well as propose legislation now by the 10:08 sender's 10:09 on is really all focused on the k12 minor student issues 10:13 on the however the the vast number 10:17 records and number of individuals are actually over 10:20 on better actually having more injured local interesting things 10:24 being done with the data and when you're inspired Asian on 10:28 a lot of the really good things that he is saying around 10:31 SLPs systems in terms of linkages goes out the workforce development so a lot 10:35 of the data that we're seeing 10:37 elected on higher education students are now being linked 10:40 workforce I data systems and now you're starting to see the really loud call 10:44 a high-risk data elements being after dinner 10:47 leads to other things like salary and social security numbers and others 10:51 a as you start looking at eat the W and bTW specter 10:55 well it is while it is highly sensitive on it's certainly not 10:59 one year's critical you know what your it up your catching a bus students in 11:03 terms they're ok but on encore exams and sample 11:05 not really useful for anyone outside a educational purposes or 11:09 understanding you know to decorate a student or when skipper 11:13 college however when you start to talk about a student's academic performance 11:17 and likelihood up in 11:18 1 int and salary and a you know debt burden and 11:22 financial aid information stored I read institutions that's just the biggest 11:26 servants are right there waiting for something to happen is all 11:28 data acquired its chance out about your financial background in your parents 11:32 financially 11:33 background the store and sometimes very less secure systems then 11:37 then what your a.m. seeing in in our corporate America so 11:40 so I do think the higher ed it which is which is this the RT right I read is 11:45 hillbillies looked at and scrutinize right now in terms of data systems 11:49 on the vendor side in the institution site their own storage in 11:52 policies but as I think the highest first data available 11:55 meeting with I'm about the couple University customers in the last couple 11:58 weeks and thats 11:59 issue that this is confronting a right now is how they protect all this 12:02 information and how the car that privacy 12:04 and and how they use the date and one of the things that they're all talking 12:09 about us 12:10 social media is coming up with a big issue how much for that social media 12:13 stock and I can be mine how much is that can we use combined with other data 12:18 the talk and to really determine at risk students are me if you have a student's 12:22 tweeting all the time on out partying every night 12:24 I'm doing this I'm doing that Miss Teen start becoming risk academically 12:28 can use that you use that information right and it's it's it's an interesting 12:31 posts 12:32 slippery slope that they're starting to negotiate does seem rather big brother 12:37 is the times you noted 12:38 to single out individuals doing there such a difference between using DNA 12:42 aggregate in in using it for an individual persons track when an 12:46 individual person is doing well 12:48 they don't know that you might be following that so 12:51 that's why return to the if you do 12:55 issue transparency I think you have to be absolutely transparent with students 12:58 about what you doing 13:00 with the entire collecting and how are you using it because I think once you 13:03 break the trust 13:05 it's so hard ever get that back absolutely and I think you have to be 13:10 really careful with 13:11 mining social media data in the k12 space 13:16 I you can she know certainly make the argument that if a student is posting 13:20 something on Twitter 13:21 %ah that information is public and that it's fair game 13:25 but is that really the ethical thing to do when you're dealing with minors 13:30 under the age of 18 and is it fair 13:34 I it's you potentially make assumptions 13:37 about that child based on content posted on social media 13:41 %uh that may follow them um 13:44 shrew adult life I'm very passionate about teaching kato students about their 13:49 digital 13:49 footprints and how what everything they post online is being archived in it 13:54 database somewhere 13:55 %uh but is it ethical to actually be consciously 13:59 trying to aggregate that information into some sort of profile 14:03 I'm dat will be used to mean aside from the fact you could make the argument 14:07 that 14:07 like the social media site sorry are doing that within themselves Spanish 14:11 is it is it ethical to do that within obvious occasion space 14:14 I week we've been following a few companies right now 14:18 educators and in in the waterworld it affects the news 14:22 to do what we call social summit monitor so these are companies that are doing 14:26 your prime services for for tracking on what 14:29 you know what people are saying about brands and everything in in 14:32 on Twitter and social media pages and we're now seemed sonic I'm into 14:36 higher education and even the k12 start gates I'm 14:39 you know students affinity for certain institutions in there 14:43 you know they're actually you know near college application process and as a 14:46 student right retention mechanism it's a 14:48 which students using you know positive negative words like drop out or transfer 14:52 as an indicator 14:53 up their their economic trajectory 14:55 and in every institution is crossing this line. now 14:58 are having that make that decision our sin or not as to whether they're gonna 15:01 start 15:02 monitor other it will they don't miss students and 15:05 in world I find interesting is there as if you if you take the 15:08 the technology out of the equation for a second and you look at the policies that 15:12 institutional researchers and higher institutions so 15:15 had in place for decades about what data they will allow themselves to collect or 15:20 not on students 15:21 and how they use it for economic purposes I think we're 15:25 you know the issues that wrapped around what's possible with new technology but 15:28 is fail to realize it institution research been going on for a long time 15:33 people have wanted to get more data about their students in their behaviors 15:36 for a very long time there's a lot of studies have been done behavioral and 15:40 in other things with student populations in cohorts 15:43 I'm that in their strict policies and rules and guidance around 15:47 use that data it happen it doesn't go away just because you take the 15:50 conversation experience online 15:52 on case in point there's institutions that that we work with that 15:56 I actually invented here but I think he made a point that 15:59 you know getting getting the students often and review of the use of 16:03 technology for analytics for big data 16:05 to go deeper social media most institutional research firms before the 16:09 are our departments on campus before they can even 16:12 all student population about even knew so what they're learning management 16:16 system is an example 16:17 have to go through student government to get the project ru 16:21 before they put it now in the hands it's just a research issued a survey 16:24 I don't think there should be any different a different approach 16:28 to getting student government by in for do it for higher education 16:32 you know edta maybe equal an organization on the a topside 16:35 on but there shouldn't somebody process says they give the project 16:39 here's what we want to do here's a good one to collect and technology were used 16:43 to do it 16:43 do you agree and you give us the green light for doing that 16:46 is give them the opportunity the way and up before setting policy in Sydney 16:51 on patient so let me I want to give you guys opinion on something so 16:55 there's a there was a controversy about Pierce this is probably about 16:58 I don't know maybe six weeks ago on npr Pearson as part of their monitoring 17:03 students 17:04 not found a tweet from Mike from Mike Cake Boss tonight I don't know what 17:07 greatness and about to 17:09 about the standardized test and they made a tweet he did it sweet and that 17:13 may 17:13 and they took action I don't recall if he was expelled or suspended 17:17 I'm I don't know way and I think I would you guys me not set 17:20 is that a violation of privacy that is that a misuse that information curious 17:25 what your thoughts are 17:26 sousa I mean you're indicate of space at what do you think about that 17:29 well I certainly think shearson is within their rights as a corporation to 17:35 monitor 17:35 what he said about them on social media %ah 17:39 why I a disagree with very strongly is just pure send have the right to you 17:45 I contact %uh school board's and insist on disciplinary 17:50 up policies I had to be imposed on students 17:54 for on something made posting on social media and 17:58 also are I remember that incident I believe this student we did something 18:03 about the test papers after the test it wasn't during the test it wasn't I don't 18:06 even know 18:07 act what exact content was but two meters %uh 18:10 difference between tweeting at test question and maybe between just 18:14 some comment about the test and so I think that it gets into our 18:18 really murky area out where and 18:21 om when you start shot trying to impose consequences 18:26 on students for things they post on social media platforms 18:30 outside the school day an office cool especially office PPO property 18:35 I'm I that bet that's me dat de stress Mac Big Brother like i said im great 18:40 person has a right to monitor social media 18:42 and see what's being said about them but mmm 18:46 I have I have problems with I'm how they approach that particular situation 18:50 well as I i agree I think your son was in their rights to be the monitoring and 18:54 and in fact they're using the 18:56 a a readily available %uh technology solution vendor which 19:00 other higher institutions are also using the monitor their brand presence as well 19:03 so 19:04 there was anything yet they were doing that a lot of other 19:07 companies and higher ed institutions are already using with the same technology 19:11 on what I do give Susan on one on one point that 19:14 um I don't think that up their organizations 19:18 a or students individually no on 19:21 a lot of the details 19:22 the relationship that the the testing companies like fierce and out with their 19:26 school district's 19:27 and my only question about that I don't know this if this is Ben chose 19:30 back or not but there's their here have been a relationship with the a 12 19:34 organization 19:35 and and the testing prior net ace to back channel and share information 19:39 that's what I would actually draw into question is 19:42 is judy's on tracks with the testing companies and others 19:45 rightly or wrongly did but having been reviewed and approved onto their 19:49 so they're on the up and up and shared information about their methods and 19:52 practices such that 19:54 um parents in students know that they are being monitored for these things 19:58 there there seem to be a lack of awareness that was happening not that it 20:01 wasn't right 20:02 or wrong I'm not gonna it maybe I'll you know 20:05 with wager that question but it does seem that there is definitely a black 20:08 awareness 20:09 up to that back-channel information and whether there was policy that they were 20:13 that information could be used for disciplinary purposes 20:15 I do disagree I disagree that it will there should not have been any 20:18 disciplinary action absolutely not 20:20 um but if there was a policy that said it was a possibility 20:24 and that's something that I think that need parents to an organization that 20:27 involved in Review 20:28 using just agree with that yes I I think 20:31 I'll if the student was unaware and they had been educated on the relationship 20:35 between 20:36 company here think my even if they might be monitored no 20:40 that that would be something that they should 20:43 work hard so I want to pursue that 20:47 that this whole lineup are I'm discussion here because one other things 20:51 that 20:51 that has come up in conversations that I've had it said 20:54 you know how comfortable are stand this is particularly higher education 20:58 institutions but how comfortable are they 21:00 now looking at so he takes to insure rest K 21:04 you know can you start to use the social media information if they tweet about 21:09 now tweet about hell natured about alcohol or drug use state read about 21:14 relationship issues they treat about things that that 21:17 that could be impacting their there 21:20 there there still your academic success and then we learn from 21:25 I'm normal student dated its core I don't say normal but that the regular 21:30 kind of student 21:31 it's collected around test scores and and it's a classic 21:34 that at that studio 21:36 is India risk can we feel comfortable 21:39 using that social media information or should we completely stairway from 21:43 I'd be curious on what your thoughts are within the k12 space 21:47 I'm I don't think he 21:50 honestly I don't think you need to analyze social media to determine if a 21:54 student is at risk I'm quite confident that the educators 21:57 at that child's school can tell you and can identify 22:01 I'm quite clearly which students are at death at risk 22:05 on again I I think it in maybe a different situation if you're looking at 22:10 so should be used for students over the age of 18 22:13 she and I realized that the social media laws for 22:16 there are you don't have proper protections for students between the 22:19 ages of 13 18 22:21 out but I I know I feel that that 22:25 crosses %uh and I mean even though some publicly available information 22:29 I feel they're gonna get since line just because you can do it does that mean you 22:33 shouldn't 22:33 I'd I feel like it crosses a line 28 I would 22:37 I would be in favor abusing its 22:40 if it were separated from individual names 22:43 you in used in areas like you could see trends like 22:46 all these the student center college %uh me have a drinking problem and we should 22:52 do some education around 22:53 drinking or something target individual students 22:56 for posting things on on social media 23:00 is to me is just taking it too far 23:03 its so here's a here's here's where I'll distinguish myself from the panel having 23:07 Benedict company and and 23:09 and in working with so they differ for quite a while 23:12 um I bring it down to individual impact and so 23:16 if I E I knew I had the tools about sailors in student services at higher ed 23:20 institutions 23:20 had to also build my disposal they would tell me 23:24 with ninety percents see certainty that space in someone's post 23:28 on Twitter for individual identified student because I know their Twitter 23:32 handle 23:32 and I had a tool that was my ring that feeding alert me 23:35 they're using um a correlating words that you 23:39 indicate bullying a suicide potential 23:42 a you serve alcohol or drugs and I knew with any person certainly that there's a 23:47 incident likely to happen 23:49 in I didn't use that tool to intervene with that student to save their life 23:53 on I I would have 23:56 I would not sleep at night I didn't take offense to that capability 23:59 you can if you can use data to make it in make it 24:03 and I agree with appreciate you saying about on you know 24:06 using aggregate but on the flip side if I don't have data 24:10 uniquely identifies an individual that tells me how to impact their 24:14 education or provide them with the individual services that 24:17 they no I think we need that individual data I think we need 24:22 though is that awareness that the students need to know the it 24:25 the institution has a policy of using the data in certain ways 24:29 on I don't you'll have a chilling effect on their posting on social media 24:33 I I seen so many things at a industry that should have had a chilling effect 24:36 on their use of social media as a yet 24:38 so I don't expect it to stop but I do think there needs to be an awareness 24:41 the policy in either orientation or every year when he resigned their 24:45 orientation forms that this is going on 24:47 I'm because I I seen cases where people have done Berkel student services for 24:52 alternative a you know students like online learners 24:56 or adult learners where you know you can you can positively impact drop transfer 25:01 %uh rates or you can positively impact on students in terms of getting that 25:05 outsource they need at the right time but it does require that individually 25:09 identifiable data 25:10 I to do so and I i strongly believe in its citizens 25:13 and now that access and should have and I i have heard 25:19 cases were it has been used for good I think it was a case in New York were 25:23 still 25:24 was was saved who was suicidal so 25:27 I think there is a flip side that it can be used for good 25:30 arm on the other hand I mean this is taking it to 25:34 crazy link if you say you're monitoring it in your going to be watching these 25:38 things 25:39 in trying to heal what is what if you were monitoring it in 25:43 in you missed something in a student died could you be liable i mean that's 25:48 taking it too 25:49 probably I'll extent which 25:52 I don't think that would happen I hope it's a very good question 1 25:56 will start to help Yahoo everything in awareness of the day that you have a new 26:00 it responsibility to risk 26:02 on its a very good legal much yes which 26:06 which I think goes back to the conversation we start started earlier 26:09 which is 26:10 you know East yes this digital native generation right 26:13 how do we get them engaged in this conversation how do we 26:17 is it is it you know the k12 level it's its 26:20 I i think is their parents students and you can confirm that but if it 26:23 at the college level how do we get them engaged how do we get their views on 26:28 what privacy me 26:29 and then how do we begin to implement that in the policy I'm curious what your 26:33 thoughts are 26:33 actually naka 12 space I'm a huge proponent 26:39 up digital citizenship training in schools and and when I see digital 26:43 citizenship 26:43 I mean that covers a range of topics from privacy to Internet safety each you 26:48 I you know appropriate social media use 26:51 on cyber-bullying on but I'm a huge 26:55 believer in the importance to doing it because it has been my experience 26:59 that's majority of parents again they just don't know what a top now 27:04 and if you aren't educating parents 27:07 and students about these important topics I 27:11 then it people won't be able to make informed decisions 27:14 I of it when I presents two groups students are a group of parents I asked 27:19 them 27:19 who can tell me why the minimally minimum age for use in social media is 27:23 thirty 27:24 hand no one knows what copper is they don't know what the implications are 27:28 they don't understand 27:30 they have this I'm delusion that you know 27:33 13 is so magical age questions are suddenly mature enough to use social 27:37 media 27:37 which you know is certainly not the case and they don't understand why 27:42 I'm they might want to think twice about allowing their underage 27:45 under 13 child to use social media or even if they are over 13 27:48 what are the possible on privacy implications and using commercial social 27:52 media platforms 27:53 so I think that I'm educators have 27:57 a huge responsibility for educating parents and students about 28:02 on issues surrounding privacy and the broader topics in digital citizenship 28:07 oMG I don't think we do not I don't think you can start 28:10 early enough I'm 28:12 we start with these concepts in kindergarten and I think you have to 28:15 include the parents 28:16 as well because how can they make educated decisions for their kids if 28:20 they themselves don't understand 28:22 on the contest by Jeff thoughts higher education side 28:27 I think in general the there seems to be less than 28:30 emphasis on privacy in this country in 28:33 concerns about privacy you know your the the 28:36 force Google to have the rate for getting 28:39 in down people been more time thinking about it than we do in this country 28:44 in I'm not sure why that is but I'm I'm certain that we need more education 28:48 strong 28:49 issue and getting students involved 28:53 is is the tricky part of it yes how do we do it will 28:58 I'm not sure I wish I I wish I knew the answer that question but I 29:01 I think they would be interested if the new 29:04 the discussions that were going on in like if they hear this discussion about 29:07 us 29:08 are reading your social media and possibly taking action 29:11 I think they with get them more motivated to be involved in the 29:15 discussions 29:16 as so I'll probably not positive reaction to that 29:20 thinking that we were delving into what they consider their private lives 29:25 so home I 29:28 wish I knew the answer %um involved I had the benefit of sitting in on a 29:34 on a panel up students when I was in DC there from georgetown 29:37 and not yet there s that question very pointedly saying you know 29:40 if you if you new the 29:44 institutions Armada your social media streaming what what is an 29:47 in what's off limits and what's what's fair game they said they they said they 29:51 wouldn't mind it 29:52 if from if you live the social media streams and and then I 29:55 you know at interviewing with them that meant you know up in their academic 29:58 performance 29:59 or runs on the services but don't be creepy about it 30:03 within the way they characterize that was no don't watch my Twitter feed and 30:07 then within 10 seconds me making a post send me a direct message 30:10 you know with the service order maybe follow-up be an alternate method 30:13 it's more or more like email or with a phone call from the appropriate 30:18 Student Services folks um you know it as a as a follow-up 30:22 ap no after the baptism 30:24 might've been a of comedy made on Twitter they didn't really mean to make 30:28 extracting delete so 30:29 a day had really good suggestions that set which policy 30:33 and and but I'll call evaluation policy in terms of along the way to respond to 30:37 something 30:38 just make sure it's legitimate a in also on the talk a lot about 30:42 on into the pie with the regiment is the is that this kind of information 30:46 artsy that that students up to age and the students are 30:49 absolutely willing to give information about themselves 30:52 really so long as they feel they're getting something equitable back 30:56 in value from the person or the company they're giving it to 30:59 so if they knew um that they 31:03 this information is access to social media or other personal information to 31:06 you 31:07 an education technology vendor or back to the institution 31:10 for the benefit love um you know a better chance at success from 31:15 from graduated I read or ice for I think they would do it willingly 31:19 a just keeps going back to them being aware ahead of the 31:22 ahead of time before the back um so it's not some surprise that they get any 31:27 email 31:27 from the institution sale by the way company X was hacked and 31:31 all yours to information has now been you know is done online you can find 31:35 they just need to know what the risk is up front 31:37 like these are smart consumers they evaluate everything 31:40 I'm they just need to know how that is being used with the value is to them 31:44 before the chair 31:45 transparency is key that's for sure 31:50 you so that's so there's an inch thick that's an interesting 31:54 there's an issue discussion going on here about how 31:58 how do we hold schools accountable we treat schools 32:02 now both pirating Kate all the same way that we treat the private sector 32:07 and you know you talk about this generation gap I mean 32:10 this generation wouldn't when shipp Macy's are are 32:14 you know yeah anybody sorry sent them a 32:17 I S I in store shopping coupon because they monitor their tweets they walk into 32:22 that 32:22 into the store right but we think they kinda differently when that happens at a 32:26 higher education so how do we had a week how do we 32:28 tree are higher you know education institutions 32:32 Sameer differently let me play out your your analogy little bit on 32:36 I'm I know that 32:37 both myself and in enough in in students in and other 32:40 you know teenagers that I know that got a notification that their patients act 32:44 because the target breach definitely sup thought twice about 32:47 or say more business targets way um 32:51 if if a higher ed institution 32:54 or and ed tech company where suffer a similar Gretsch 32:58 absolutely this generation would think twice about sending business there were 33:03 either in rolling so 33:04 one of the things I think what we're seeing is a trend here in summer 33:07 research admitted students 33:09 is is at cinema front saying d you know 33:12 if the an institution at eight reach or work with the vendor that was known to 33:16 at a pre for data privacy and security with it negatively im 33:19 impact your perception that institution as your 33:22 line and the answer is yes it would so did 33:26 the students are considering the the the implications updated price in security 33:31 your 33:31 during in you know religion in orientation the school's 33:35 on in so and they also had an expectation that 33:38 you know I'm I'm fine your share my date with these other 33:41 a larger companies I have the same expectation no 33:45 ok protection at that data with my higher ed institutions as well as my 33:48 a 12 institution they just expect it's expected it to be protected 33:52 when they when they see stories about hired institutions others that just 33:56 can't seem to protect date or have a breach or or anything 33:59 they understand it and and and and they might I'm they might use that 34:02 information or that 34:03 that back to San Diego I institution we consider says goodbye 34:09 opinions I'm not with well I think this is the reason we're seeing 34:14 the rise afflicted chief privacy officer which is autumn in New 34:18 new position arm to help protect data I 34:22 I do think that arm some smaller institutions 34:26 do not probably have the resources that they need to 34:29 protects to our house data it's really 34:33 they're really valuable so so then the question is 34:37 do you require that really sensitive data to be stored in a place where it 34:41 can be secured 34:43 so would weast with the store at the state level 34:47 where they might have a chief security officer to chief privacy 34:50 officer so we can insure that the day to see 34:53 if you can ensure that you can save it locally 34:56 in and not get hacked in we have a saying 35:00 you know the CIO community it's not a question %uh if you get hacked it's when 35:04 you get back because they're getting more and more sophisticated 35:07 with the processes using to help people and their actually 35:11 joining forces there joining these actors in 35:14 working together to to get details so I think is much as we can for 250 35:19 walls and in protect the data between we need to do that in 35:23 we need to have super clear rules about how 35:27 people handle and manage data in I think you have so many 35:31 people on creating 35:34 rules around this right now the it's not really totally clear 35:38 people how their supposed to act so I'm hoping that 35:41 the the with this 35:44 student digital privacy in parental rights act 2015 35:48 I'm hoping that 1s past 35:51 bid it will handsome clearly this discussion and so people have a roadmap 35:56 about where they're supposed to go 35:58 with the you you really have to train people well 36:01 about when they're using data you must have a business purpose for using it 36:05 in in you you have to be very very careful 36:10 it's so easy to lose data just put it on a 36:13 on it job stick in walk out the door within its me laws 36:17 you can lose hundreds I'll pieces Dean 36:21 thousands of pieces data at a time and so the risk is so great that 36:26 educating people was one other most important things we have to do in 36:30 if there's like willful are violation 36:35 up these laws then I think you do have to punish people who 36:38 I mean their mistakes are so 36:41 accidents happen but if if you know what the rules are and you're not you 36:46 purposely not following only have maybe investment to follow them then 36:49 there have to be some consequences 36:53 buying he made such a good point about the importance 36:56 up having policies in place for handling data 37:00 and also for educating employees 37:03 I think bad is I've huge area of weakness in fact honestly I think I 37:08 probably worry more about the people factor 37:11 then I do about the technology factor 37:14 when it comes to security on everything from policies 37:18 %uh about I'll white where data can be stored and what's safe 37:22 II you know to bring honor of campus to 37:25 not running pass routes on a sticky note buyer computer I mean that sounds so 37:29 basic 37:30 but yet that is often I'm a very 37:34 I know we hear a lot about the big out bridges in stores like Target or what 37:37 not you get that yet 37:38 human element is such a key piece that and then going on to the 37:42 larger IT security peace I'm I think that's a really interesting point I 37:47 think that 37:48 heights he and so many K-twelve environments 37:52 is is underfunded and Obama 37:55 to my knowledge there is like and distinctly 37:58 other organizations like you PCI compliance for businesses that handle 38:01 credit cards are you know 38:03 and regulations in the medical industry I to my knowledge I don't think within 38:07 the education space there is any type a standard 38:10 that oMG dictates out what security measures you have to have in place 38:14 or specifically when education policies need to be in place regarding 38:19 me I security a I you permit technicals 38:22 her background a student data and you know that's a really interesting 38:26 conversation 38:27 wat the closest thing they think that existing industry that some state 38:31 governments are beholden to you 38:32 and it really only governs when you bring your data systems in the cloud is 38:36 something all 38:37 bedroom up compliance perspective now 38:40 K 12 in higher ed institutions are not subject that but um 38:43 but the the the structure of those requirements for 38:47 other whatever latest security information systems 38:51 in computing resources on would be well-served 38:55 to be implemented in I read in it well but the problem I think you said it has 38:58 to do with the costume that 39:00 to properly security systems is expensive and as you see dwindling IT 39:04 infrastructure buckets up 39:06 in year-over-year um it's just an easy place to cut that 39:10 us because %uh the false assumption that 0 on technology advances you can do more 39:14 with less 39:15 that's not the case they're being actually acid you more 39:18 well with a you know with less at the same time having new requirements he 39:22 on your over year it doesn't work and now requirements for security 39:25 on top of that on I think that that kato vince's 39:29 unit or higher at 10 units that that maintains and manages 39:33 I insensitive student records at making should be beholden to the same 39:37 standards at the rest of the industry's are doing for banking work or 39:41 payment card industry replant that perjury higher at like I said earlier 39:44 with the financial aid data 39:45 why hire a doesn't have a it certainly for managing 39:48 I you know that what what depression does it bursts of this is beyond me that 39:52 should be a policy and set a standard that's 39:54 national for that on but I don't I don't know that'll happen because that there's 39:58 this guy actually really good lobbying arm in 40:00 and its uses a very bad about you know being incited by those requirements but 40:05 at the same time 40:06 it we're also seeing institutions that are making decisions to move to cloud 40:09 computing 40:10 and here's the great iron cloud computing providers already checked 40:13 lenders it goes in the cloud or it sometimes 40:16 and two hundred times more secure then the end then the 40:19 institutions from which they're getting their data however 40:22 higher ed institutions IT staff sometimes dismiss 40:26 ad tech companies are stored in the cloud as being inherently insecure 40:29 and then that disconnect needs to be eliminated 40:33 before you'll start to see that that sets about the cost savings 40:37 requirements in this rate what options for all technology it exists because it 40:43 sometimes is 40:44 inherently more secure and much cheaper get you you know the bottom line both 40:47 but issues 40:48 but to you you great down there that disconnect um 40:52 be that sometimes IT staffs are ardent install 40:55 about the security of cloud computing in general 40:59 um I don't think those those benefits be real so I'll 41:04 we're were coming to the end up this session and I wanted to give each 41:08 you about a minute yeah just her for your 41:12 for any final thoughts so up by let's start with you 41:15 on any final thoughts on this or private use 41:17 I I don't wanna leave you the impression that I I don't think big date is a good 41:21 thing cuz I think it is 41:22 I think it holds so much promise and 41:26 I think used correctly it can really be used to 41:29 to make advances in education in so 41:33 are I just think we need safeguards in place we need 41:37 rules did we all so we all are on the same page and we all know what we're 41:42 doing 41:42 I see lots managing d 41:46 in using big data to make decisions in our are crediting bodies are demanding 41:50 that we 41:51 unique data-driven decisions in 41:54 in so a we are going to use these resources that are available to us but 41:59 I just want to ensure that we use in a safe way that students 42:03 know how we're using im soo we're very transparent 42:07 in the the students have a voice cuz ultimately I think this team's 42:10 own the data about themselves so that's my 42:14 to since schism yeah I would agree 42:19 and I mean big data has tremendous potential for education in the cage wall 42:24 space 42:24 I'm but there's also are risks involved and I think it's very important that we 42:30 balanced buttressed benefit I'm 42:33 ratio and make sure that each 42:37 in the end best interests our students 42:40 are always think I om and also 42:43 I agree I think transparency and I'm getting student and parent Voice 42:48 is critically important I be so often decisions Inc 42:52 indicate well spacing made without any sort love 42:56 a student input and I think that is a great disservice to our students 43:00 and I i think you also underestimate I'm our students it's been my experience 43:05 when you ask students 43:06 %uh for their ideas and their in their opinions on things 43:10 and a day off and I come up with some 43:13 really really good ideas and Jeff 43:17 thanks I i think that some 43:21 this is a great discussion talking about the the issues from 43:24 the institution in this student and in the parent 43:28 in the 43:29 the administrator stakeholders perspective but I also 43:32 um if there's any party I'm a newbie directed towards the education 43:35 technology companies 43:37 in net they have these fantastic products and solutions that show what 43:41 you can do with all that data 43:42 on I think so long as they're communicating 43:45 um their terms abuse privacy policies 43:49 near safeguards in a more clear concise manner me at of 43:52 any sort of conjecture or or 43:55 here I'll what happens when that its like that or they're at least messaging 43:59 back 44:00 to those other stakeholders I'm I mention with 44:03 wider like in the data and what's in it for you the end user 44:07 if you give us this day I think it will go a long way 44:10 towards us with the adoption the services and getting a little more 44:13 credibility for it 44:14 companies that are stewards of the state: a and in in right alongside 44:18 is is in the air I'd like to thank our panel 44:22 and thank you all very much for attending today's public sector watch 44:25 for more information on how IBM data and analytics are being used in education 44:29 please visit the Big Data Hub and IBM .co slash 44:32 education thank you very much and Graham